I'd really like to see an extension on the history of Industrial Music.

Future plans (we hope) should also include a listing of local indepenent Industrial artists.

We especially need more info on record labels and mailorder sources.

If you know of any please send their name, label, and an address so I can start compiling them.

MORE IMPORTANT NEWS! The address to send FAQ related info has changed to rmi-faq@efn.org.

You should also notice that, amongst many other excellent suggestions, it was mentioned that the differences in versions will be put at the first of each posting. You can see that here (The last change was Apr 3, 1995)

The Frequently Asked Questions File For rec.music.industrial

Current Editors:

Darrell Fuhriman

Erik Henriksen

Notes about HTML versions

This is really a moot point anyway... I don't have multiple references...

The original versions of the FAQ were maintained by Dan Kletter, yol@netcom.com.

Many thanks to: (in no apparent order)

 
	Al Crawford		Mason Jones		Jeff Dauber
	David Vessell		Dave Stein		Greg Earle
	Adam Weitzman		Rob Vaughn		Seth Robson
	Joshua Buerge		"Uncle Klaus"		Dave Datta
	Valerie Ohm		Andrew Russ		Adrian Le Hanne
	Leo Breebaart		Ben Cox			Terry Reed
    	Mark Gunderson		John Davison		Kritt Gierlefzen
 	Georg Wallmann		"hortonee"		Jutta Degener
   	<X>orcist		Paul Moore		Anders Holmberg
	Franck Arnaud		"@Man"			Bob Haskins
     	Piotr T. Prussak	Jennifer Davis		Jester
     	Michael Lucas		Pete Ashdown		Peter Cigehn
     	Kevin			"white law"		Michael Gendreau

If there is anyone that I have forgotten, my apologies.

TABLE OF CONTENTS

1. Other periodic postings
2. Intro
3. History
4. Charter
5. RMI CD Status
6. Important Facts
7. FTP servers
8. Mailing Lists

PART 2 - Directory of Record Labels/Mail Order Sources/Contacts:

1. Major Record Labels
2. Distributors and Smaller Record Labels
3. Mail Order Sources and 'Zines

[1] OTHER PERIODIC POSTINGS

You are currently reading the "offical" r.m.i. FAQ. Other regular postings include:

Jester's Net Industrial/EBM/Cyber Culture Band list, available from jester@sage.cc.purdue.edu. The list covers those bands on the net, and includes reviews of their various work. The list is posted monthly.

The Top Sample Sources List is a list of the most popular movies, tv-series, presidents and other sample sources. The popularity is based on how frequently spoken lines from these sources have been sampled and used in some sort of musical context. The list has been compiled by Peter Cigehn, mainly by the help of and contributions from the readers of r.m.i. Currently the list consists of hundreds of sources and nearly 1000 different samples. The latest version of the list can be obtained directly from Peter Cigehn by e-mail, Peter.Cigehn@um.erisoft.se. Although the prefered way to obtain a copy is by reading r.m.i. where the list is posted about once a month, or by Web at one of the following servers:

• Sewden
• Norway
• UK
• USA
• Canada

[2] INTRO

Experimental. Aggro. Techno. Cutups. Alternative. Noise. Ambient. Musique Concrete. Sound Collages. Avant Garde. Performance Art. Difficult. Improv. Industrial?

So many names and so many labels. It gets confusing when from all around us, publications continue to spew out more complex and different names in an attempt to pinpoint a source, while at the same time converging on one obvious thought: industrial. To demonstrate this idea, we could even trace these origins of industrial back to dadaism if we wanted to. This FAQ file is less an attempt to force people into their place and more to widen the flow of information. Sharing the precious information allows us to experience more in our learning than by strange militaristic actions.

[3] HISTORY

Organizational Autonomy. A conscious choice to record independently. To preserve the intention of music and to take it away from the tainted and greedy major record companies who enjoyed success at others expense.

Access to Information. With the perception of control techniques leaving any physical boundaries and moving into the realm of the mind and the mouth, it was of vital importance to discuss and be aware at all times.

Use of Synthesizers and Anti-Music. Using found materials and unconventional means of composition industrial music was more antagonistic to its intended audience, than being music true itself. It was "sounds without content".

Extra-Musical Elementrs. Because television has become a more powerful agent of control than any pop music song, the use of films and video arrangements often accompanied these aural counter attacks.

Shock Tactics. The final blow in the scheme for control has to be the use of hitting home what you have to say, making sure that it gets noticed. By far, this last technique is what is most often used by modern day "industrialists" and most probably the connecting puzzle piece that gave them such a distinction at all. Unfortunately, we've all witnessed death and war so often in this day and age, that we're far too jaded to care, rendering such an attempt almost useless.

Does this mean that industrial is now dead? Perhaps. But it cannot prevent the presence of their past actions from being muted or lost. In the early to late 80's a number of other groups began to interpret some of the audio ideas to formulate their own territorial grounding. Mixing the use of new technology, imaginative found (or homemade) materials, and the incorporation of percussion and rhythm helped guide it into the new decade. Examples of some of these bands would include: Non, SPK, Einstuerzende Neubauten, Test Department, Laibach, Rhythm and Noise, Ono, and Trial.

By the end of the 80's, "industrial music" had more than just changed, it had more or less, continued to progress and evolve alongside its society. These days, it has often come to be known as electronic instrumentation used to create a form of dance beats blended with harsh noises and sound bites such as Skinny Puppy , Revolting Cocks, Ministry, Front 242 and Front Line Assembly. Today, there are musicians who create industrial music from both sides of the fence; and the list is ever growing.

The fascination with noise and machinery which is so much a part of what one tends to think of as "classic" Industrial music had historic precedents. In the late 1800's ideophones (noises, concrete sounds) were used in orchestral music, Luii Russolo performed using his "intonarumore" (noise machines) (1913) and around 1920 Erik Satie used pistols and typewriters in the music for his surrealist play Parade. The twenties also brought the "Futurist" and "Machine Music" schools in both Italy and France. Other important historical figures include Edgard Varese, whose "Ionisation" (1930) was the first piece of Western music for percussion instruments alone and who produced an important tape piece called "Poeme Electronique" in 1958; the "Musique Concrete" works of Pierre Schaeffer and others (tape pieces made exclusively from electronically altering recordings of natural sounds like water drops, glass breaking, etc. He was also responsible for probably the earliest 'loop' which used groves cut into vinyl records); and John Cage, whose "First Construction in Metal" (for metallic percussion) and "Imaginary Landscape No. 4" \ (for 12 radios) were landmarks in American music.

[ for more information about industrial (experimental) music/history/ culture there are a few books you can read:

TAPE DELAY - SAF Publishing Ltd. (ISBN 0 946719 02 0)
REsearch #4/5: Burroughs/TG/Brion Gysin (ISBN 0-940642-05-0)
REsearch #6/7: The Industrial Culture Handbook (ISBN 0-940642-07-7)
REsearch #8/9: J.G. Ballard (ISBN 0-940642-08-5)
REsearch #11: Pranks! (ISBN 0-940642-10-7)

for more info on how to contact REsearch Publications or SAF Publishers, see the directory listing in Part 2.]

[4] CHARTER

rec.music.industrial is an unmoderated newsgroup which passed its vote for creation by 411:80 as reported in news.announce.newgroups on 23 May 1991.

For your newsgroups file:
rec.music.industrial Discussion of all industrial-related music styles.

The charter, culled from the call for votes:

Rec.music.industrial is for the discussion of all industrial-related music styles, including traditional industrial (i.e. Einstuerzende Neubauten, Throbbing Gristle, Cabaret Voltaire , etc.), dance-industrial ('cyberpunk' i.e. Ministry, Skinny Puppy, Front 242, Foetus, etc.) and hard techno music (i.e. Kraftwerk, etc.). Reviews of new releases, related news items, concert information, and other types of discussion are encouraged.

[5] RMI CD Status

The RMI-CD(s) now have their own home page.

[6] IMPORTANT FACTS

• The ADRV in Crash Worship's name stands for "Adoracion de Rotura Violenta," which more or less means "Crash Worship" in Spanish.

• No member of Front 242 is a member of Bigod 20. Jean-Luc DeMeyer, the lead singer of Front 242, was a guest on Bigod 20's song 'The Bog,' and he sang it and wrote the lyrics. Aside from the similarities in the two bands' music, this is the only direct connection between the two bands. (And also the fact that they are five-letter words followed by numbers.)

• There is some confusion over what is at the end of Front 242's album TYRANNY FOR YOU. According to Transmission 242 originally,the songs were called simply 'Bonus Track I' and 'Bonus Track II.' However, upon further prodding, they replied that the pieces do have titles. The first one is called 'Hard Rock.' The second one, according to the letter received, is called 'Trigger 3.' However, it is believed that this is a misprint, and instead it should be called 'Trigger 1,' because the band had released a (longer) song also called 'Trigger 3' on one of their TRAGEDY remix EPs.

• The footage for the video to 'Mindphaser' by Front Line Assembly was taken from the Japanese movie 'Gunhed.' Gunhed stands for 'Gun UNit Heavy Elimination Device'. The original release was in Japan in July 1989. The US version followed in 1991.

• Laibach's politics does not take sides in anything. Laibach is part of a collective of artists called NSK or Neue Slowenische Kunst. Upon entrance you are supposed to get rid of your political views. Laibach are merely 'by-standers' and commentators in our world of chaos. The most important point though is that totalitarianism and oppression are not exclusive to facism but also to: communism, christianity and capitalistic consumerism.

  Since the entire NSK bases its work on the retro principle, it means that the facist imagery is real (taken from actual Nazi art) and the music also is based on music originally not composed by Laibach. The most clear cut examples are: the Beatles, Queen, and Opus; the glorified Macbeth is nothing more than a re-make of some classical stuff.

  What makes Laibach very unique though, is the overall designs of their work. They ususally manage to collage one idea with its opposite. Some of the artwork included on their disks was originally done by anti-Nazi activists; however, its out-of-context use leads one to associate it with Nazis. Laibach stresses the idea that one can't be sure of the real meaning of symbolism, that no one knows all of the history.

  There are at least two radically different versions of Kapital, the CD version is missing a track and most tracks are remixed from the MC version.

• The proper spelling for the band Negativland is without the 'e'. Their name was lifted from the Neu album BLACK FOREST GATEAU. On that album one can find tracks named "Negativland" and "Seeland." The first one is obviously the band name, and the second is the name of the band's record label (before they signed to SST, of course). Negativland means "negative country" or "country of negativity" in German and Seeland means "country of the sea."

• It is important to note that Nine Inch Nails is essentially one person, Trent Reznor from Cleveland (he does tour with a band but they don't appear on the album Pretty Hate Machine). However, on the more recent albums, Reznor is joined by other performers/producers on various songs (Martin Atkins plays some drums on Broken, J.G. Thirlwell remixed two songs on Fixed, Adrian Belew plays guitar on a couple songs from The Downward Spiral).

• Butt Fuck Parlor Time (a.k.a. BFPT) is not a real NIN album.

• The correct definition of Einstuerzende Neubauten is "collapsing new buildings" where "collapsing" is an adjective, not a verb. examples:

  einstuerzen

  v., to collapse

  einstuerzende

  adj., collapsing, in a state of collapse

• According to the radio-promo release of 'Interim' the name is pronounced: INE-SHTUR-ZEN-DEH NOY-BOUT-TEN

• "Neubauten" generally refers to buildings built in a particular style, rather than to any recently constructed buildings. The style in question is the impersonal concrete-box modernist style. Most housing projects (especially the huge towers built in the 60's) are perfect examples of Neubauten.

• Einstuerzende Neubauten chose their name when the Berlin 'Kongresshalle' collapsed around 1980. The building is located close to the Reichstag and was a gift of the US allies to the city of Berlin. The Kongresshalle is shaped a bit like an oyster, was used for all kinds of exhibitions and meetings and finally collapsed due to its cheap 60's concrete/metal construction. A journalist died, a few more were injured and several cars were smashed. After a rather long public discussion the Berlin government decided to rebuild the Kongresshalle since it was a symbol for the friendship between Germany and the US.

  Additionally, to be strictly correct on a Western keyboard, it should be Einstuerzende (the proper way to indicate an umlaut [ë] over the 'u' is to just write it as 'ue').

  Note, that I have chosen to use the "ue" instead of " [ë]." This makes the formatting correct when this is converted to HTML.

• Alain Jourgensen (of Ministry fame) is not and never was a member of Pigface.

• "Sozialistische Patienten Kollektiv" (I've also seen it as "Sozialistische Patienten Klink") or SPK named themselves after a group of mental patients who formed an anarchist collective (inspired by the Baader-Meinhoff Gang) and then blew themselves up trying to make explosives. Their name changed on every release to phrases such as "Systems Planning Korporation", "Surgical Penis Klinik" and "SePpuKu."

• Concerning folks in sKINNY pUPPY: Nivek Ogre's real name is Kevin Ogilvie. He grew up in Calgary.

• David Ogilvie is of no relation to Ogre, the same last names are a coincidence. He moved to Vancouver from Montreal in the very early 80's. David Ogilvie's nickname is "Rave" and has been for a very long time. Rave's wife (Rosie) is credited as "Mowse" on the old CLEANSE, FOLD & MANIPULATE track 'Tear or Beat'.

• All of the above (and the other members of the Vancouver cadre) are very nickname-happy. cEVIN and Dwayne both have nicknames as well. Other people outside the camp get branded with nicknames if they're around Rave or Ogre too long. Just because sometimes "Rave" is listed and sometimes the more formal "David Ogilvie" is listed doesn't mean they aren't the same person. There are credits that say "Ogre" just as there are credits that say "K. Ogilvie".

• "Green guy" is a context-sensitive descriptor. It can mean a particularly potent form of Pot, or the person who is the delivery boy for said Pot. it is also used as in the credits for some pUPPY albums.

• Everyone thinks that BACK AND FORTH exists in 50 copies. After all, it does say words to that effect on it, right? This is not the case. There's only 35 real copies. cEVIN made all of them himself. He "pooped out" after those 35, so #36-#50 don't exist. There's more. Of those 35 copies, there's "Mark I" and "Mark II". The first 10 (or was it 15?) were hand- dubbed by cEVIN from the four-track master. Those are the "good" ones. The remainder were dup'ed on a high-speed double-cassette deck, and are thus deemed (by cEVIN) to be of "lower quality".

• BACK AND FORTH has been re-issued on CD. it is the first part along with other "rarities" and unreleased material as part of a "10 year Skinny Puppy retrospective CD" that is in the works. The BAD news is that it (B&F) is *re-mixed* and not just re-issued :-( It is being re-done by "Hi-Watt" Marshall, the guy who engineered the last Hilt album. (Rave Ogilvie is livid over this.) There are two flavors of the re-issued Back and Forth CD: the regular limited edition release and the "ultra" limited edition release that comes packaged in a steel box with a numbered and signed photo.

• the recording of sKINNY pUPPY's AIN'T IT DEAD YET was mastered as one long track because it's intended to be listened to from start to finish, like watching a concert. In order to get the whole experience, you have to listen to the whole thing.

• For LAST RIGHTS, "song 4 on side 2" of the cassette is the same thing as "song 10 on the CD" which is the same thing as "Left Handshake", the track that samples Timothy Leary from "Tune in, turn on, drop out" which is the same track that isn't there because the copyright holders on said Timothy Leary quoted speech rescinded permission for the band to use the samples. It may emerge as a one-sided 7", to be given away to people at their upcoming tour shows if you buy some tour merchandise; or it may suddenly appear out of (K)nowhere courtesy of some annoited bootleggers. It has also been reported that Leary is working to get the rights to his speech back so SP can use it. It is now available on the FTP site listed below.

• Skinny Puppy does maintain an FTP site. ftp.netcom.com in the /pub/puppy directory.

• Re: Tear Garden's album, TIRED EYES SLOWLY BURNING, the credits in vinyl copies for the song "You and Me and Rainbows" clearly state:

  Edward Ka-Spel: Voice, keyboards, tapes
  cEVIN Key: Keyboards, rhythm box, guitar, radio, tapes, voice
  D. Rudolph Goettel: Keyboards
  Lee Salford: Drums
  N. Ogre: Voice
  Lisa: Lady voice
  Rave: Guitar, tapes
  

  Note that "Lee Salford" was the drummer for Section 25 at one time, and "Lisa" is a woman who I believe was Cevin's girlfriend at the time.

• 1000 Homo DJs work was originally done as an Al Jourgensen solo project concurrent with the LAND OF RAPE AND HONEY work. The vinyl EP of APATHY was released about six months post LORAH. When Al decided that Trent Reznor should do the vocals for 'Supernaut', Steve Gotlieb (president of TVT), who was already unhappy with Trent because of his legal filings against him, told Wax Trax that any productions using Trent Reznor's voice is in violation of Trent's contract with TVT. So the CD5 was released with the original Jourgenson vocals. the CD5 itself was released containing the two new songs, 'Supernaut' and 'Hey Asshole' as well as what was on the APATHY EP, 'Apathy' and 'Better Ways'.

• KMFDM stands for Kein Mitleid fuer die Mehrheit which in English means "No pity For The Majority." It has been argued that the name really means nothing because the liner notes for their album, WHAT DO YOU KNOW, DEUTSCHLAND (WaxTrax! Records) have it listed as meaning:

  "Kein Mehrheit fuer die Mitleid"

  however, the proper use of the prhase would be:

  "Kein Mitleid fuer die Mehrheit"

  (mit=with,leid=pain -> Pity; Mehr=more,heit=-ness -> Majority)

  which also uses the genders correctly.

• Other uses such as "Kill Mother Fucking Depeche Mode", "Krispy Mutant Fish Dealing Mescaline" or even "Kyle Minogue Fans Don't Masturbate" is just a joke.

• Survival Research Labs now has an answering machine system which you can get info from. Unfortunately, the current messages do not give any dates for performances. It does however have a menu which allows you to get info on past shows, legal problems, being an SRL volunteer, and current machines working or being developed. Call: 1 + 415 641-8065.

  They also have an FTP site, but I lost the address. If someone could forward it, I'd appreciate it.

[7] FTP SERVERS

• The anonymous FTP address for the rmi FAQ is:

  rtfm.mit.edu /pub/usenet/rec/music/industrial

  Not only will you find the rmi FAQ there, you will find about every other FAQ as well.

  bradley.bradley.edu or (136.176.10.11)

  Contains the EFN back issues. Also present are transcribed lyrics (currently Ministry and Negativland) and a few discographies.

• The discography archives are currently available via e-mail request from Dave Datta and/or (preferably) via anonymous FTP at:

  ftp.uwp.edu (131.210.1.4)

  The archive is organized by letter, then by name. So, if you were looking for Coil, you would look in:

  /pub/music/artists/c/coil

  This directory then has the following links in it:

  discog -> /pub/music/discog/c/coil
  lyrics -> /pub/music/lyrics/c/coil
  pictures -> /pub/music/pictures/c/coil
  reviews -> /pub/music/reviews/c/coil
  

  There are thousands of discographies in the archives as well as tons of lyrics at this time. Submissions are always welcome. A sample FTP session/help file is also available via mail request from the administrator.

• The files that comprise Factsheet Five Electric (the zine of zines) are available for online reading or downloading from the WELL, via ftp from either:

  ftp.msen.com (148.59.1.8) /pub/newsletters/F5-E
  or
  src.doc.ic.ac.uk /literary/newsletters/factsheet-five

  These are freely distributable. Questions regarding F5 Electronic should be addressed to Jerod Pore jerod23@well.sf.ca.us.

• The general rule for all anonymous ftp sites is:
  1. When prompted for a user name, type 'anonymous'.

  2. When prompted for a password, type your full e-mail address.

This will work for the vast majority of ftp sites, including the ones above.

[8] MAILING LISTS

• The Northwest Elektro-Industrial Coalition:

  Posts of NEC show dates, tour schedules, band-news, bios and the NEC e-zine. Anything relating to Northwest Music is accepted.

  Send mail to listproc@u.washington.edu with the subject subscribe nec full name.

• Smothered Hope:

  Taking its name from the early Skinny Puppy song, it exists for the disucssion of (you guessed it) Skinny Puppy's music. smothered-hope-request@mrfrostie.ecst.csuchico.edu

• The Indie-List:

  The Indie-List is a digest of reviews and other info for listeners of idependent music (not just industrial). Requests for addition to the list should be sent to grumpy@access.digex.net (a person, not a program)

• Gothic Guitar Tab:

  For guitarists wishing to exchange tabulature.
  gothtab-request@unix2.tcd.ie

• Net Industrialists:

  For all net bands on the net industrial/ebm/cybercultre band list to chat, share trade secrets, etc
  music-swap@acca.nmsu.edu

• 4ad music:

  For the 4ad record label. listserver@jhuvm.hcf.jhu.edu
  Leave subject line blank. Place only this in message: subscribe 4ad-1 {your name}

• Nine Inch Nails:

  Any subject, with the text only "ADD". nin-request@nin.wariat.org
  

• Kraftwerk:

  A useful list maintained by Dave Datta, unmoderated, available as digests or individual mail.
  Requests to join to: kraftwerk-request@cs.uwp.edu

• Cloud-Zero:

  For the discussion of Legendary Pink Dots and related projects. (Tear Garden, MIMIR, Delerium, Nurse With Wound) Or for anything inspired by the above.

  There is also an associated FTP site: ftp.cs.mcgill.edu in the /pub/mail-list/cloud-zero directory.
  cloud-zero-request@cs.mcgill.edu

• Foetus/J.G. Thirwell/Clint Runi:

  For discussion of same. himmelfahrtstransport-request@dover.cerf.net (Say that three times fast.)

This FAQ copyright 1995 by Darrell Fuhriman. Permission must be obtained before reproducing in any non-electronic format.